The nominees for Best Costume Design 2024 Ingken Benesch, Tanja Hausner and Thomas Oláh in conversation.

Three nominees, one trade: All three are renowned and experienced Costume Designers and share the nomination of the "Lola" for the German Film Prize 2024. Ingken Benesch for GIRL YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE, Tanja Hausner for THE GLORY OF LIFE and Thomas Oláh for STELLA. A LIFE. Annika Osterrieder met the three to talk about their work, their experiences in film and their visions for our trade.

TANJA: When I read the biography of Dora Diamant, I realized that it must have been other things than beauty that attracted Kafka: It must have been her will to live, her love of life, her independence and modern hands-on way of life.

I didn't want Henriette Confurius as Dora to be seen only as a beautiful woman, but also as a pragmatic, warm-hearted, generous woman, and I wanted to visually underline these qualities of Henriette and Dora. So I first tried to distract from Henriette's beauty with old granny skirts and thick sweaters. At the beginning of the fitting process, I may have overdone it a little and overlooked Henriette's delicate figure. In the end, I went for simple tank tops with thick sweaters over them, which transport warmth without looking dressed up.

How was it with GIRL YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE? Are you a big “Milli Vanilli” fan, dear Ingken?

INGKEN: When the two became stars, I was in my mid-20s and thought they were super uncool, way too mainstream. When I got the request and checked the first pictures, I was totally shocked at how ugly I found their styles. But during the extensive research and the deeper I immersed myself in the world, the more exciting they became. The youth cultures of the 1980s are really interesting. The boys were definitely special. They were pioneers of their time and shaped an entire generation. Their signature look, the clash of black biker jackets with cycling shorts and Adidas Torsion sneakers, I really liked that in the end. They played with feminine elements and put body awareness at the forefront, which was pretty special.

Is there a fluid boundary for you where research ends and your own interpretation begins?

THOMAS: I always try to set a few visual anchors that the audience can locate historically and that are clearly conveyed visually: This is Berlin, in the late thirties, early forties.

And within these anchors there is a great deal of freedom, where the criterion is no longer historical correctness, but rather coherence and credibility. So you can actually move very freely within this framework. There is no such thing as an authentic costume anyway. So it is all an invention, an assertion, even if it pretends to be. But when it seems as if it could have been that way, it becomes interesting.

How did you get the opportunity to work with such topics?

TANJA:I'm a huge Kafka fan and the 1920s are one of my favourite periods that I haven't worked on before. It was a great challenge to portray this period in a modern and simple way at the same time. My motivation for taking on this job was the complete package that the film offered: Judith Kaufmann as camerawoman, production designer Katharina Wöppermann. We were all in the same boat, great conditions for a great collaboration!

INGKEN: It was like a gift when my colleague Silke Faber, who had to turn down the project, suggested me. What I find very exciting about the Milli Vanilli story is the 80s and 90s with the glam and pop culture background. Director Simon Verhoeven and I both have a great affinity for pop culture. In addition, the clothing is a major focus in this film because of the long time span, from the beginnings of the two main characters to their relatively short fame and decline. Ultimately, the personal development is made clear through the costume design.

THOMAS: For me, it was a total coincidence: I overheard a phone call in which a friend cancelled a job offer for the same production due to time constraints. That made me prick up my ears because I knew the material and also the director Kilian Riedhof, who had already invited me to work with him several times, but this had never worked out due to scheduling issues. So I congratulated the director by text message and wished him every success. He replied "What a pity you don't have time. Maybe it will work out next time". Now I was gobsmacked. And it turned out that the producers hadn't honoured his request to contact me, but had told him that I wasn't available.

So a conspiracy?

THOMAS: Not quite. In Austria, film funding is also motivated by gender politics. There is a kind of points system.

A points system? Can you explain that in more detail?

THOMAS: Women should be given more leadership positions, as Head of Department – and there are additional grants for this. However, in this case, someone from the production department claimed to have spoken to me and said I had cancelled due to scheduling issues – which was a complete fabrication.

That's tough. Tanja, Ingken, have you had similar experiences? What things could go better in the future?

TANJA: If we're being politically correct: The issue of green filming is a topic that definitely has the potential to be discussed.

TANJA: Yes! During my production we filmed in three different locations, in Vienna, in Berlin and on the Baltic Sea. We flew back and forth. And then I have to prove that I buy little, waste little, borrow a lot from the costume house and also reuse it. I try very hard to behave sustainably at work. But the flights and travel are completely out of proportion to that.

Do you often come across terms like creating a “timeless costume” or acting “particularly inconspicuously” during development?

INGKEN: In fact, I've heard time and again, especially with this production, "we have to appeal to today's audiences," which I find a bit of a shame. Moviegoers are simply underestimated. That's the beauty of a great film, immersing yourself in another time and another world.

Unobtrusive” is my absolute favourite term. In my opinion, it’s an evasive phrase to avoid having to commit yourself.

TANJA: It is also true that an "unobtrusive costume" is a wasted opportunity. With our costumes we bring expertise, both in terms of content and art. Missing a creative opportunity is absurd.

As Costume Designers, you always work in a team. How important is the composition of this team and how do you involve your colleagues?

INGKEN: I don't want so much hierarchy in the team anymore and for a few years now I've been paying a lot of attention to equality. There's already enough hierarchy in film. I'm the head of department, but everyone can contribute. For example, when I have a director's meeting, I like to have my assistant there, who is also involved in the whole process and helps develop it. Her opinion and expertise help me. I need sparring partners in development. With Milli Vanilli, it was a lot of research and in realization, the support of the assistant and a well-coordinated team is indispensable

THOMAS:That is part of the lack of appreciation for the entire costume department and perhaps also for the individual positions, skills, activities and functions. Unlike production design, for example, we have still not managed to establish differentiated job titles. Unfortunately, there are only assistants and costumers. But how our department is actually structured and how responsibilities are divided is not communicated. We have to work on that and that can only really come from us Costume Designers.

INGKEN: Absolutely, because it still prevents female colleagues from staying in the position. I think that young people often just move through the positions so that they can do costume design themselves as quickly as possible. That would certainly be different if we found terms that conveyed appreciation, like in English-speaking countries. It would help to give positions better recognition. And to make these roles more attractive for young people. I absolutely agree with Thomas there. And it also has to do with the fact that costume design is a job that is more likely to be done by women, at 80 percent to 20 percent, and is lower down the hierarchy in the film industry.

What are your experiences, Tanja?

TANJA: A familiar team is very important. I like working with a team that has worked together over the years. It's about being on the same wavelength and having the same taste. And especially with these productions, which work across borders, it's rarely possible to take your own team with you. A team is thrown together spontaneously and has to work at the push of a button. There's no time to get used to each other so that processes run smoothly, which is something I simply have to rely on when I have a large amount of work to do.

THOMAS: We have a duty to motivate producers much more to take care of training young talent. But it is still difficult to ensure that interns are given the opportunity to “learn by doing” in the department and not used as cost-saving assistants.

Have you tried this?

THOMAS:For years, I have tried to set up positions for interns on every production under the motto “No more internships!” The promise is that if they make it through a production, they will at least be fit enough to take on a fully paid job afterwards.

During the internship, they will be given a job rotation to get to know all the positions and the entire process from conception to production and fittings to filming supervision. This will not save on day-time temporary workers - we have to communicate this to the producers - but it will offer a practical training program that will produce competent young talent.

Set Costumers usually take on this kind of training of interns and are therefore quite challenged. In addition, they are also expected to operate an entire set, so the question arises as to how to relieve the workload. Could job sharing play a role in this?

INGKEN: I once shared the costume design with an Assistant because I had to leave the project early. She then took over and we shared the pay. I currently have two supervisors who share the position, and it works really well. One of them was heavily pregnant on “Milli Vanilli” and this is her first job after giving birth. I wanted to give her the opportunity to start straight away.

But production has to be ready for that?

INGKEN: Absolutely – and we have found a way how we want to share, all together. One supervisor is there Monday to Wednesday lunchtime, then there is a handover and the other takes over. With two Set Costumers, we form a reliable team. For me, job sharing is the future.

Thank you for your time!

Ingken Benesch received the Golden Lola for her work in "Girl You Know It's True". Congratulations!